101 replies to this topic

[Gedmundo]

biffoire, on Dec 10 2009, 05:41 PM, said:

If soni is 2 days this year then the Friday to sunday thing is extremely misleading!! They should only put the days where the main stage are in operation.

Alice Cooper is playing that day, but I suppose you're right. It's clearly not a real day of live music if he isn't on a big stage

[kipper64]

edgar, on Dec 10 2009, 09:27 AM, said:

well it won't be difficult.

don't get me wrong, i love a bit of classic rock as much as the next guy, but this looks like a late eighties monsters of rock lineup. if they're planning on mixing it up a bit then surely they would've announced a more varied set of bands to start with.

Its the initial announcement, theres still a ton more of bands to be announced.  Whilst I agree it isnt the most varied in terms of contemporary/oldschool bands, pretty much every band in their are somewhat legendary in their own right.  Newer bands will obviously be added.  Tell me, who could download "quite easily" book to beat this?

And @The_Frame.  Download last year had a pretty week undercard ( a few good bands dotted around), FNM werent even exclusive(and despite being a band I love - nowhere near big enough to headliner), Slipknot were just about getting to headliner stage,so they were hardly a big get, Def Leppard are hardly that relevent anymore, but a decent enough headliner, but overall the 3 weren't particularly that big.

Basically, this is probably only like a quarter of the Main stage lineup, so theres still plenty of main stage acts to be announced, plus all the Bohemia acts (which will all be contemporary bands no doubt).  So I wouldn't write it off as "old rubbish" yet, especially since all of the acts so far announced are far from rubbish

[the_frame]

kipper64, on Dec 10 2009, 08:33 PM, said:

Its the initial announcement, theres still a ton more of bands to be announced.  Whilst I agree it isnt the most varied in terms of contemporary/oldschool bands, pretty much every band in their are somewhat legendary in their own right.  Newer bands will obviously be added.  Tell me, who could download "quite easily" book to beat this?

And @The_Frame.  Download last year had a pretty week undercard ( a few good bands dotted around), FNM werent even exclusive(and despite being a band I love - nowhere near big enough to headliner), Slipknot were just about getting to headliner stage,so they were hardly a big get, Def Leppard are hardly that relevent anymore, but a decent enough headliner, but overall the 3 weren't particularly that big.

Basically, this is probably only like a quarter of the Main stage lineup, so theres still plenty of main stage acts to be announced, plus all the Bohemia acts (which will all be contemporary bands no doubt).  So I wouldn't write it off as "old rubbish" yet, especially since all of the acts so far announced are far from rubbish

did you go to download kipper? I went to both, and download was infinitely better than Sonisphere. and everyone I know that went to download last year said it was the best festival they had attended in a long long time - the new layout, the setup, the acts, the weather, everything was near enough perfect. soni however was a typical "first year" festival- the layout was awful, truly awful. and the lack of choice with who to watch didnt really work for me. The policing levels were completely over the top, the number plate van on the main entrance was a complete abuse of police power. and the weather was f**king crap ( not sonis fault obviously) 12 of us went last year - only one is returning (on his own) because he is a ridiculous R+ fan. we are all Rammstein fans, all going to see them in manchester in feb, and 6 of our mates are going to berlin next week, but last years experience means only one of us is making the 200 mile trip to knebworth.

download can book daphne and celeste to headline for all I care, because I know there will be choice, a great crowd, and the weather in the last few years has generally been better in may/june than in july/aug.

I have previously been very critical of download, but last year they really got their shit together. its not all about the lineup. last year I really enjoyed FNM, LB, MC Rut, Korn, Bleed From Within, whitesnake, volbeat, clutch, shinedown, sevendust, and therapy. sadly I had to go home on the saturday and return on the sunday.

If soni change the format (ie have a proper 1st and second stage offering choice), lay the site out better, and drop the police levels to below chinese standards I may consider it. bring that up at the next focus group meeting.

[Lithium05]

I had no problem with the level of police and all that. In fact, I'd rather have a large police presence than not be able to find one if I need one.

The reason I'm not rushing to buy a ticket is that Slayer, Alice Cooper and Iggy and the Stooges are all bands I don't rate and view as a waste of a decent line-up slot. As frame said, with limited alternatives, such poor bookings become unavoidable.

[the_frame]

Lithium05, on Dec 11 2009, 10:48 AM, said:

I had no problem with the level of police and all that. In fact, I'd rather have a large police presence than not be able to find one if I need one.

The reason I'm not rushing to buy a ticket is that Slayer, Alice Cooper and Iggy and the Stooges are all bands I don't rate and view as a waste of a decent line-up slot. As frame said, with limited alternatives, such poor bookings become unavoidable.

take your point about the police lith, but I found their presence to be far too in your face, rather than inconspicous as it should be at a festival. they are there to ensure everyone has a safe time whilst pouring gazillions into the local economy. the police at reading would often walk on by if your group were knocking up a joint, at soni it was bracelet time.

and I have a real problem with civil liberties being intruded, putting a number plate camera by the road is fine - random checking. putting a camera in a specific place to target a particular section of society is another. if there was a NPC placed deliberately outside a mosque the visitors would rightly be claiming religious victimisation. why should festy goers be treated that way?

[edgar]

kipper64, on Dec 10 2009, 08:33 PM, said:

Tell me, who could download "quite easily" book to beat this?

well there are quite a few bands in the world. so some i like would be a start.

[Lithium05]

kipper64, on Dec 10 2009, 08:33 PM, said:

Tell me, who could download "quite easily" book to beat this?

AC/DC, Tool, Metallica, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Blink 182, Bon Jovi, System of a Down, Foo Fighters, Pixies, Ozzy.

A couple of those are unlikely, but none of them are impossible. If the rumor of AC/DC a lot of people are hearing is true, them combined with any other two of those would be an instant winner

Edited by Lithium05, 11 December 2009 - 02:32 PM.

[spwan-of-the-devil]

Think id see one band on the line up so far.. - Alice Cooper and maybe The Cult

The rest is one big meh for me

[kipper64]

Lithium05, on Dec 11 2009, 03:28 PM, said:

AC/DC, Tool, Metallica, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Blink 182, Bon Jovi, System of a Down, Foo Fighters, Pixies, Ozzy.

A couple of those are unlikely, but none of them are impossible. If the rumor of AC/DC a lot of people are hearing is true, them combined with any other two of those would be an instant winner

Metallica have been touring extensively for the past year now, and arent exactly a stranger to download, would be quite lazy booking imo if they got metallica (as good as they are).  As for the others, well as you say some are not likely and tbh all are quite difficult acts to get (so i wouldnt say that download could easily beat the soni headliners).  Pearl Jam are playing HRC, whilst they could still play download, playing 2 English festivals within two weeks of each other makes them a bit less of an achievement to get. AC/DC would be brilliant and thats the calibre of headliner they should be after, not Faith No More who only play academies or whatever (P.S. I'm a big FNM fan, but I wouldnt view them as a mainstage headliner - look at R&L's they were positioned correctly there.)

And @The Frame.  Why should sonisphere have to change to a 1st and 2nd stage setup?  That would just make it like every other festival, the unique selling point of it is it has more main stage calibre acts that you can see in a day due to the staggered stage.  Theres the bohemia tent if you want alternatives.  I'd rather have the ability to see all the big acts (with only lesser known acts as alternatives), than have main stage calibre acts clash with each other.  The layout for sonisphere whilst not perfect, it wasn't that bad.  In some ways the layout was better than download aswell, the walk from the camp to the arena was very short which was good.  Also I'm pretty sure only you are complaining about police presence. I didn't feel it was OTT, it was good to see the police there, doing their jobs, and I didn't feel threatened by their presence at all.

[Lithium05]

Faith No More played 1 academy show as a warm up for Download which was their big comeback show and as such worthy of a headline slot.

If they tour again they will be playing arenas.

For all their respect gained by the headliners, soni have lost points for the other bands - Slayer* only ever released one good album and suck live, Alice Cooper only has about 2 half decent songs and the less said about the insurance salesman the better. By announcing them as exclusives Download instantly looks better.

The Frame is right that without an alternative band on at the same time the ticket price isn't justified

*if I don't go to soni, do me a favour, of you see anyone wandering around shouting "Slaaaaayerrrrrrrr" at any time other than when they're on stage, about to go on stage, or have just been on stage. Punch them.

[kipper64]

Lithium05, on Dec 11 2009, 04:29 PM, said:

Faith No More played 1 academy show as a warm up for Download which was their big comeback show and as such worthy of a headline slot.

If they tour again they will be playing arenas.

For all their respect gained by the headliners, soni have lost points for the other bands - Slayer* only ever released one good album and suck live, Alice Cooper only has about 2 half decent songs and the less said about the insurance salesman the better. By announcing them as exclusives Download instantly looks better.

The Frame is right that without an alternative band on at the same time the ticket price isn't justified

*if I don't go to soni, do me a favour, of you see anyone wandering around shouting "Slaaaaayerrrrrrrr" at any time other than when they're on stage, about to go on stage, or have just been on stage. Punch them.

After Download, FNM played the Corn exchange here in Scotland, its a tiny venue for like 1,500 people.  Whilst it sold out quickly and they could have played bigger, I doubt they would play any bigger than an academy sized venue here anyways.  They also only played the Radio 1 stage at R&L's after Download.

Say what you want about Iggy & the Stooges, but I think they're awesome, very influential aswell.  Sure Iggy may have lost his way a bit with the insurance ads, but I'm not going to let that get in the way of listening to good music.  I agree that slayer are a bit overrated (and the SLAAAAAAYERRRRRRRRRRGHSDAHDSAHD! tards are annoying), but I still wouldn't mind seeing them at a festival (wouldnt go to one of their own gigs).  Alice Cooper I like, and he has a fantastic stage show, its a great bonus for the Friday imo (which was added on at no extra cost). I fail to see how Download who hasn't announced any bands yet - looks better.  

And again. THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES.  Theres the Bohemia tent, remember Corey taylor, Cancer Bats, Zebrahead, Thunder, The wildhearts and the likes all played in it.  Most of them during mainstage bands.

Edited by kipper64, 11 December 2009 - 03:46 PM.

[Sparticus]

kipper64, on Dec 11 2009, 03:45 PM, said:

After Download, FNM played the Corn exchange here in Scotland, its a tiny venue for like 1,500 people.  Whilst it sold out quickly and they could have played bigger, I doubt they would play any bigger than an academy sized venue here anyways.  They also only played the Radio 1 stage at R&L's after Download.

Say what you want about Iggy & the Stooges, but I think they're awesome, very influential aswell.  Sure Iggy may have lost his way a bit with the insurance ads, but I'm not going to let that get in the way of listening to good music.  I agree that slayer are a bit overrated (and the SLAAAAAAYERRRRRRRRRRGHSDAHDSAHD! tards are annoying), but I still wouldn't mind seeing them at a festival (wouldnt go to one of their own gigs).  Alice Cooper I like, and he has a fantastic stage show, its a great bonus for the Friday imo (which was added on at no extra cost). I fail to see how Download who hasn't announced any bands yet - looks better.  

And again. THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES.  Theres the Bohemia tent, remember Corey taylor, Cancer Bats, Zebrahead, Thunder, The wildhearts and the likes all played in it.  Most of them during mainstage bands.

yes but the show in edinburgh was something else. Had they reformed a couple of years earlier they would have been a headliner for r+l, but they're target audience has definately changed over the last couple of years. I missed out on the initial sale and took ages until i could get a ticket for a reasonable price, whereas a band like smashing pumpkins who i also love, headlined and then proceded to tour the uk in half empty arenas.

[the_frame]

kipper64, on Dec 11 2009, 03:45 PM, said:

After Download, FNM played the Corn exchange here in Scotland, its a tiny venue for like 1,500 people.  Whilst it sold out quickly and they could have played bigger, I doubt they would play any bigger than an academy sized venue here anyways.  They also only played the Radio 1 stage at R&L's after Download.

Say what you want about Iggy & the Stooges, but I think they're awesome, very influential aswell.  Sure Iggy may have lost his way a bit with the insurance ads, but I'm not going to let that get in the way of listening to good music.  I agree that slayer are a bit overrated (and the SLAAAAAAYERRRRRRRRRRGHSDAHDSAHD! tards are annoying), but I still wouldn't mind seeing them at a festival (wouldnt go to one of their own gigs).  Alice Cooper I like, and he has a fantastic stage show, its a great bonus for the Friday imo (which was added on at no extra cost). I fail to see how Download who hasn't announced any bands yet - looks better.  

And again. THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES.  Theres the Bohemia tent, remember Corey taylor, Cancer Bats, Zebrahead, Thunder, The wildhearts and the likes all played in it.  Most of them during mainstage bands.

please remind me of the alternatives during metallica and linkin park last year kipper, because I'm sure "sitting on our arses smoking bongs in the bong tent" was all that was on, because thats what we did.

if you found the prospect of 50,000 people trying to fit into the second stage area good, then I seriously doubt your sanity.

not having 2 stages of choice isnt a selling point, its a hinderence. bohemia was a massive walk from the other two stages, and although I saw 3 of my fave performances in there, it wasnt really a joy to go there.

its quite obvious that you arent a FNM fan, I imagine you are probably a bit young to remember them first time round? (forgive me if I am wrong) but they were one of the biggest bands on the rock planet in their prime, and patton is hailed as something of a creative genius (and rightly so) - I could easily see FNM outselling Iggy in a head to head on ticket sales for a proper UK tour. yet you think iggy is a good signing because he is influential? check your history, and check the last time Mike Patton did an advert for car insurance.

I really dont understand why you take it on yourself to claim that download needs to "beat" soni with its lineup? download will probably sell out next year after its huge success this year, something I dont recall it has ever done so far. and I seriously doubt soni will have a bigger audience this year than last, because as much as I love Rammstein, they are still a minority act in terms of the big players, and wont sell anywhere near as many tickets as metallica and LP did this year.

One of the main reasons I have decided I am not going, is because I couldnt watch Iron Maiden if my life depended on it, and there will be no other bands to watch instead

I hope soni is great, and I hope you have an awesome time, but the fact remains- its no download.

Edited by the_frame, 12 December 2009 - 05:04 PM.

[kipper64]

the_frame, on Dec 12 2009, 06:02 PM, said:

please remind me of the alternatives during metallica and linkin park last year kipper, because I'm sure "sitting on our arses smoking bongs in the bong tent" was all that was on, because thats what we did.

Actually, there were bands on during the Linkin Park.  Sure not during Metallica but thats because 99% of the people at the festival would have wanted to see them - its a pretty minor issue if you ask me that only the closing headline (and main band) dosn't have an alternative.

Quote

if you found the prospect of 50,000 people trying to fit into the second stage area good, then I seriously doubt your sanity.

Right, but 50,000 people wouldnt go to Bohemia, the busiest the tent got was at night and during Cory Taylor and even then people could get in (there was a bit of a queue at times but those who wanted in, could get in).  If you were referring to the Saturn stage, again there was no issue in terms of spacing.

Quote

not having 2 stages of choice isnt a selling point, its a hinderence. bohemia was a massive walk from the other two stages, and although I saw 3 of my fave performances in there, it wasnt really a joy to go there.

Yes it is a selling point, and whilst I agree its not perfect in every aspect, the pros outway the cons for me, and having 2 mainstages on at the same time has its cons aswell.  I'd rather see 13 mainstage calibre bands a day, than 6 or 8 or whatever.  And Bohemia was RIGHT behind Saturn, and a less than 5 minute walk from Apollo MAX.  Did you actually go?  Some of the claims you make are absolute bull.

Quote

its quite obvious that you arent a FNM fan, I imagine you are probably a bit young to remember them first time round? (forgive me if I am wrong) but they were one of the biggest bands on the rock planet in their prime, and patton is hailed as something of a creative genius (and rightly so) - I could easily see FNM outselling Iggy in a head to head on ticket sales for a proper UK tour. yet you think iggy is a good signing because he is influential? check your history, and check the last time Mike Patton did an advert for car insurance.

I do remember them "back in the day", and I am a fan.  I saw them at the Corn Exchange in Edinburgh in August in fact.  Whilst they were somewhat big back in the day, and I do agree Patton is a fantastic musician and frontman, they arent an arena or stadium sellout band, just saying.  And there is a major difference between comparing Iggy and FNM because Iggy & the Stooges wont headline. FNM did at download - so its a bit irrelevent to compare.

Quote

I really dont understand why you take it on yourself to claim that download needs to "beat" soni with its lineup? download will probably sell out next year after its huge success this year, something I dont recall it has ever done so far. and I seriously doubt soni will have a bigger audience this year than last, because as much as I love Rammstein, they are still a minority act in terms of the big players, and wont sell anywhere near as many tickets as metallica and LP did this year.

Actually someone else said something about Download will easily beat sonisphere - not me.  I simply asked, how could Download "quite easily.  Sonisphere only ran for its first time this year, ofcourse it hasnt outsold download (a now established festival), and tbh I don't care which sells more (I'll be at both if download have a good lineup).  The fact is, nobody knows what Downloads lineup will be like yet, hence why I was disputing the fact that people were saying already that download will be better.

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One of the main reasons I have decided I am not going, is because I couldnt watch Iron Maiden if my life depended on it, and there will be no other bands to watch instead

Only during Maiden wont there be an alternative.  During every other band there will be, whats the issue?  Its pretty minor if you ask me.

Quote

I hope soni is great, and I hope you have an awesome time, but the fact remains- its no download.

Thats your opinion.  Personally I had a better time at soni, than I've ever had at download.  But thats just my opinion aswell. As I said - I'll be at download aswell possibly, as long as they have a good lineup anyways.

[llovemetall]

Hi all,

I have been to download for the last 3 years & sonisphere. Just to pick up on some of your points,
I would think that police presence is looked upon as a positive thing( who wants drugged up kids running about behaving like fools?!)
Loved the download lineup this year(slipknot,faith no more,chris cornell,limp bizkit were notably good)
Download will obviously get some huuuge bands but...considering rammstein and alice cooper are renowned for having pretty special live acts,and that iron maiden,motley crue and anthrax are just  great, sonisphere had an awesome first announcement!

Not saying its download vs sonisphere, just saying that none of the bands announced so far are poor and id love to see them all:)

[edgar]

kipper64, on Dec 11 2009, 03:45 PM, said:

I fail to see how Download who hasn't announced any bands yet - looks better.

it's called 'personal taste'. unless download book la roux, n-dubz and jls, it's pretty much gonna be a better lineup (for me) than what sonisphere have announced so far. if you like your music made by a bunch of geriatrics then fair enough. but i don't, really. even by 'classic rock' standards, this lineup is pretty weak, imo.

Edited by edgar, 14 December 2009 - 08:11 AM.

[kipper64]

edgar, on Dec 14 2009, 09:07 AM, said:

it's called 'personal taste'. unless download book la roux, n-dubz and jls, it's pretty much gonna be a better lineup (for me) than what sonisphere have announced so far. if you like your music made by a bunch of geriatrics then fair enough. but i don't, really. even by 'classic rock' standards, this lineup is pretty weak, imo.

You're an Idiot.  

First of all, yes its all personal taste, but Download havnt announced anyone.  To make claims like, downlaod will easily be better than this, is stupid.

Secondly, alot of these bands aren't even classic rock.  Rammstein, classic rock?    The Cult are from the mid 80's - and are more gothic rock, nothing like classic rock.  Anthrax arent really classic rock, Motley Crue are Hair Metal and not really classic rock.  Iggy isn't really classic rock although an older act so a bit close to it.  Iron Maiden are more metal than rock, although I suppose Metal is a part of Rock so I'll give you that.  Slayer, again not classic rock.  

Thirdly - disregarding personal taste - saying that this is a weak lineup is also idiotic.  These are all pretty strong acts.  I agree they could have added a few more contemporary bands into the mix, but thats not really all that important, as there is still like 3/4ths of the main stage lineup to go no doubt.  And theres also Bohemia which will be 99% newer acts.

[luckysalt]

Seems 99% that Download have AC/DC headlining on Friday night now. AC/DC have confirmed that they're playing a festival in Germany on the Sunday night of Download weekend. So there you go.

[luckysalt]

Really hope that Black Label Society and Clutch play as well as they're playing High Voltage in London the week before Sonisphere

and if they don't then DAMN YOU why weren't they booked! Saw Clutch at Download this year and they were quality, and Ive never seen BLS.

[edgar]

kipper64, on Dec 14 2009, 04:10 PM, said:

You're an Idiot.  

First of all, yes its all personal taste, but Download havnt announced anyone.  To make claims like, downlaod will easily be better than this, is stupid.

jesus you're retarded.

I DON'T LIKE ANY OF THE SONISPHERE BANDS SO FAR, AND I DO LIKE SOME OF THE ONES THAT ARE RUMOURED FOR DOWNLOAD. DOWNLOAD WOULD HAVE TO BOOK ONE BAND I LIKE IN ORDER FOR IT TO (IN MY OPINION) BE BETTER THAN SONISPHERE.

basically, download would have to try pretty hard to announce the same amount of bands as sonisphere and not have any i like.

get it?