112 replies to this topic

[4AssedMonkey]

rabid, on Oct 28 2009, 08:20 AM, said:

So don't watch it. It's not difficult.

I don't watch it.  But just knowing that it exists and seeing it for it's true colours angers me.

ICGenie, on Oct 28 2009, 01:32 PM, said:

Not really.  It gives a few very talented singers a chance at a career that they otherwise wouldn't get into.  Maybe they don't all become multi-million selling artists, but very few people do.  Lots of people from the final 4-5 of each series have carved out a career of some sort, whether it be musical theatre, writing or producing.  I'm sure all of the contestants are quite happy with getting their 15 minutes worth and their shot at the big-time rather than a lifetime of singing into their hairbrushes.

Utter, utter bollocks.

If someone genuinely cared about making music, performing music or writing music, then they'd be doing it regardless of how much money and fame it brought them, either as a hobby or semi-professionally.  If they were any good and had a slice of luck, then they'd get discovered and maybe get a career out of it.

What's wrong with playing small gigs, crafting your art, writing songs, recording a demo and bombarding radio stations wit it etc.  Worked for years and you didn't have to have Cowell's arm stuffed up your arse all the time.

This is not a show about talent, or musical ability at all.  It doesn't give anyone career opportunity other than Simon Cowell and his rank and file puppets who are "judges".  It's purely and simply a vehicle to get TV ratings and every single performance, spat, argument, tantrum, emotional back-story is choreographed bullshit, yet people watch it and claim it's an actual talent spotting programme.  Anyone who doubts this should read Chart Throb by Ben Elton.  Closer to the truth than you might think.

[Josie's Cat]

I agree with both of you! Yes, on the one hand it is  a money making exercise for Cowell, but most Hollywood films are money making exercises for the studios - entertainment is about money, it's a business.

Agre with the whole manufactured arguments and 'I hate Danni' and 'Louis has had surgery' blah blah...just fodder, bread and circuses.

But -  

Lots of people, like Genie says, have had their break out of this programme, or others like it - and why shouldn't they? It's only music, it's not arms manufacture.

They get their shot, a career, something worthwhile - something good DOES come out of these programmes, if you don't like their music, buy something else, it's a free market.

And lots of them already are doing the writing/singing/performing route, that afro guy was working the pub circuit, but a TV show like this is worth twenty lifetimes of performing in half empty boozers.

I'm not sure how a Ben Elton novel helps anyone. He's a twonk.

[NeilVJ]

So are a number of people saying that if they were an 18 year old kid who was stuck in a boring job but had a great voice they wouldn't go on x factor. If so your talking russish. It's an avenue into the music industry for a lot of people who otherwise would never get a look in.

[ICGenie]

4AssedMonkey, on Oct 28 2009, 01:43 PM, said:

If someone genuinely cared about making music, performing music or writing music, then they'd be doing it regardless of how much money and fame it brought them, either as a hobby or semi-professionally.  If they were any good and had a slice of luck, then they'd get discovered and maybe get a career out of it.

Many of the contestants HAVE been doing it for years.  As Josie's Cat points out, Jamie Afro has been on the pub circuit.  Danyl's a music teacher.  Rowetta from the first series of X Factor is a prime example of someone who has been in the background of music for their whole life and uses the programme for a leg-up.  Maybe this programme is their "slice of luck"?

I'm not denying that Cowell et al make the biggest profit out of the programme but hasn't it always been the case?  Did any artist ever make more money out of an album than their record company.  And let's not kid ourselves that the contestants are some poor vitims in the matter.  They know EXACTLY what they are getting into and just how much they can get out of it.

[geztival_09]

Mardy, on Oct 28 2009, 07:43 AM, said:

she might have killed it, but to be fair, it was already terminal and beyond any cure. Call it a mercy killing, euthanasia if you like.

I beg to differ...I think cold blooded murder fits the bill  

[Aadon]

They are, they are terrible but funny, I think they should.


Regards

Aadon

___
dossier surendettement

[st00ka]

Josie's Cat, on Oct 28 2009, 04:26 PM, said:

Lots of people, like Genie says, have had their break out of this programme, or others like it - and why shouldn't they? It's only music, it's not arms manufacture.

Er?   Who exactly?  I'm sorry but you are completely deluded if you think that these people that succeed in this program haven't been already pre-selected by Cowell/Walsh.  Am I really supposed to believe that Leona BRIT School Lewis queued up with the rest of the oiks?

Josie's Cat, on Oct 28 2009, 04:26 PM, said:

They get their shot, a career, something worthwhile - something good DOES come out of these programmes, if you don't like their music, buy something else, it's a free market.

No it's not that simple.  You don't have to buy their karaoke songs but you can't avoid them however hard you try.

Josie's Cat, on Oct 28 2009, 04:26 PM, said:

And lots of them already are doing the writing/singing/performing route, that afro guy was working the pub circuit, but a TV show like this is worth twenty lifetimes of performing in half empty boozers.

There's a reason why people get stuck in the pub and club circuit - they are simply not good enough or inventive enough to make it.

[st00ka]

ICGenie, on Oct 28 2009, 07:18 PM, said:

[color="#9932CC"]Rowetta from the first series of X Factor is a prime example of someone who has been in the background of music for their whole life and uses the programme for a leg-up.

She was in the Happy Mondays for f**k sake.

[4AssedMonkey]

ICGenie, on Oct 28 2009, 07:18 PM, said:

Many of the contestants HAVE been doing it for years.  As Josie's Cat points out, Jamie Afro has been on the pub circuit.  Danyl's a music teacher.  Rowetta from the first series of X Factor is a prime example of someone who has been in the background of music for their whole life and uses the programme for a leg-up.  Maybe this programme is their "slice of luck"?

I'm not denying that Cowell et al make the biggest profit out of the programme but hasn't it always been the case?  Did any artist ever make more money out of an album than their record company.  And let's not kid ourselves that the contestants are some poor vitims in the matter.  They know EXACTLY what they are getting into and just how much they can get out of it.

Really?  Know that for a fact do you, or perhaps it may well be a fictional back story drafted by Cowell's minions to make gullible saps emotionally relate to the "contestants"?

Seems that perhaps with exception of st00ka, you all need to drag the wool from your eyes.

[ICGenie]

4AssedMonkey, on Oct 29 2009, 12:26 PM, said:

Really?  Know that for a fact do you, or perhaps it may well be a fictional back story drafted by Cowell's minions to make gullible saps emotionally relate to the "contestants"?

Seems that perhaps with exception of st00ka, you all need to drag the wool from your eyes.

There's being cynical and being stupidly far-fetched.  I think you just landed in the latter.

I'm sure if any of these stories were outlandishly fake the papers would have picked up on it by now.

[Josie's Cat]

I think you're being a bit paranoid here 4assed - that big mouthed guy is pretty certain to be a music teacher, why would you make that up? Also it's pretty easy to check, same as with Jamie Afro being a pub singer - it's not really difficult to believe.

Are you saying that it's ALL a fake, that Stacy doesn't really have  kid, he's only a plant to appeal to parents/the sappy vote?
The twins aren't really Irish, they're robotrons manufactured in Cowell's evil lair.

I know Simon Cowell pisses a lot of people off, but I think you're giving him waaaaay too much power here.

[NeilVJ]

Over 10 million people watch the programme every week, and how many singles from artists have been top of the charts. Shall we just tar all ex reality contestants with the same brush, little boots, duffy, girls aloud, will young, lemar all ex reality tv show contestants. It's an avenue for people with great voices who aren't great song writers

[sifi]

ICGenie, on Oct 29 2009, 01:52 PM, said:

I'm sure if any of these stories were outlandishly fake the papers would have picked up on it by now

I don't know if they are fake, per se, but certainly embellished, exaggerated and used to explot the individual to the max and the public into voting, definately. The whole thing is an incredibly well contrieved plot to make a few people rich off the backs of the exploitation of others.  Simon Cowell has done very well for himself considering he has no discernable talent whatsoever.

And yes, I'm still angry for him having a go at Bob Dylan.

simon cowell said:

Cowell in 'boring' Bob Dylan attack

(Wednesday January 10, 2007 05:17 PM)
Simon Cowell has taken a swipe at Bob Dylan, saying his music "bores him to tears".   The music mogul, famed for his vicious put-downs to hapless wannabes on the X Factor and its US equivalent, said he preferred American Idol winner Kelly Clarkson to the 65-year-old Dylan.

"If I had ten Dylans in the final of American Idol, we would not be getting 30 million viewers a week," Cowell told Playboy magazine."

He went on: "I don't believe the Bob Dylans of this world would make American Idol a better show."

He added: "Do I prefer Kelly Clarkson's music to Bob Dylan's?   "Yes. I've never bought a Dylan record.   "A singing poet? It just bores me to tears."

Edited by sifimaster, 29 October 2009 - 02:04 PM.

[Josie's Cat]

Simon Cowell's massive talent is making tons of money in the music industry. It's really not exploitation, I'm sure all the thousands of people eh employs bth directly and indirectly would agree - not just the few massive artists, plenty of other performers have gon eon to have decent careers after reality shows.

And what about the people employed on X factor/pop idol, the crew and tv employees, writers, caterers, equipment manufacturers, photographers, costume designers, make up people,...there needs to be successful shows for this to happen, I really don't get the exploitation thing at all.


What did he say about Dylan, btw?

Edited by Josie's Cat, 29 October 2009 - 02:07 PM.

[sifi]

Josie's Cat, on Oct 29 2009, 02:04 PM, said:

Simon Cowell's massive talent is making tons of money in the music industry.

Or exploiting people.  Different sides of the same coin.  

I've posted his thoughts on Dylan above    I'm trying very hard not to rant about it.

Edited by sifimaster, 29 October 2009 - 02:16 PM.

[Josie's Cat]

But how is it exploitation? Making kids work in sweatshops is exploitation. I still don't understand why you think he exploits people.


So he said Dylan is boring - just an opinion, shared by plenty I'm sure.

[sifi]

Josie's Cat, on Oct 29 2009, 02:10 PM, said:

But how is it exploitation? Making kids work in sweatshops is exploitation. I still don't understand why you think he exploits people.

He uses them, and then drops them as soon as they stop making him money.  Parading people with mental illness on television, and getting them into rehab.  Children crying live on television?  

Maybe exploitation is the wrong word.  Maybe parasite is better.

Josie's Cat, on Oct 29 2009, 02:10 PM, said:

So he said Dylan is boring just an opinion, shared by plenty I'm sure.

Who?

That man isn't fit to scrape the shit of Bob Dylan's shoe.  Bob Dylan recorded songs that became part of a civil rights movement which finally saw the ending of segregation of black people in America.  He played warm up for Martin Luther King, before King made his "I have a dream" speech, he later changed the words of rock n' roll, allowing music to become a way of expressing things in ways that never happened before, merging together the visceral electricity of his loves, his hates, his fears with the excitement of rock n'roll.  Anyone who listens to what he is singing can't say it's boring.  It's vital, it has energy, it conveys human emotion in ways Cowell and his people dulls them.  You'd better start swimming, else you are gonna sink like a stone, they are selling postcards of the hangings, and to live outside the law you must be honest.  Social criticism, giving a generation a voice, all those things.

Oh, what did you see, my blue-eyed son?
Oh, what did you see, my darling young one?
I saw a newborn baby with wild wolves all around it
I saw a highway of diamonds with nobody on it,
I saw a black branch with blood that kept drippin',
I saw a room full of men with their hammers a-bleedin',
I saw a white ladder all covered with water,
I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken,
I saw guns and sharp swords in the hands of young children,
And it's a hard, and it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard,
And it's a hard rain's a-gonna fall.

Boring?  Boring!  The imagery there is for all to play with, and to see.  Communism, racism, justice, it's all in there baby.   That's boring?

And Simon Cowell has done what?  Become a transatlantic version of Hughie Green?  And what about boring?   Getting glorified karoke artists to play sacherine power pop ballads week-in week-out whilst preening about who he knows about music?  Get to f**k.

Edited by sifimaster, 29 October 2009 - 02:47 PM.

[cejx]

sifimaster, on Oct 29 2009, 02:36 PM, said:

Boring?  Boring!  The imagery there is for all to play with, and to see.  Communism, racism, justice, it's all in there baby.   That's boring?

To me, Dylan is boring.  I dislike his voice, I dislike his tunes - and because of this I don't listen to his lyrics.  That is my opinion.

Regarding Cowell, most people who feature on his shows want their 15 minutes of fame.  That is what they get - good or bad.  The lucky few whether we like them or not progress further.  At the end of the day, they choose to apply for the show - thus choose their 'exploitation' - for 15 minutes or longer.  I think life really is too short to get this het up about reality telly!

[sifi]

cejx, on Oct 29 2009, 03:05 PM, said:

To me, Dylan is boring.  I dislike his voice, I dislike his tunes - and because of this I don't listen to his lyrics.  That is my opinion.

You dislike "Like a Rolling Stone"?  You dislike "Lay Lady Lay"?  You dislike "Knocking on Heaven's Door"?

How strange.

I don't see how words such as "I saw guns and sharp swords in the hands of young children" can be boring.  Repulsive, yes.  Upsetting, possibly.  Boring?

[sifi]

cejx, on Oct 29 2009, 03:05 PM, said:

I think life really is too short to get this het up about reality telly!

I think life really is too short to watch reality telly.  I don't want it to be infecting a festival built on the themes of innovation, creativity and musicianship.  

If X-Factor people are there, they can wait their turn to do the karoke at the Singstar place like everyone else.