368 replies to this topic

[eFestivals]

chuckley, on Jul 9 2009, 01:16 PM, said:

u are completely missing the point.

OP just wanted to enter... they lost ticket so had ALL verification details, NO excuses for why they cant be let in.  people are still able to get in without tickets so y shouldnt OP with a genuine bought ticket??

No, you've missed the point.

The point is: no ticket, no entry.

The ticket is meant to be everyone's passport onto the site. If no ticket is needed, just proof of purchase, then next year we can expect to be the last Glastonbury, because if two people might be entering for any ticket sold then the festival will be exceeding it's licence conditions and will have no way of trying to abide by those licence conditions.

Just because they had proof of purchase proves nothing about what they might have done with the ticket. They might have sold it on, and the buyer might have got onto site OK with it.

chuckley, on Jul 9 2009, 01:16 PM, said:

the system is openly flawed, so anyone can get in on anyones ticket, even if they are completey different races.

the system is NOT flawed. The system works PERFECTLY.

Any flaws are due to individuals not doing their job in the manner they've been told to do their job.

chuckley, on Jul 9 2009, 01:16 PM, said:

the people OP spoke to were not just unhelpful but downright rude for no real reason.  OP blatently showed they were not a scammer but still got the ridicule.

I'm not trying to justify any rudeness, but at the same time the person in the ticket office did not have to give the OP entrance - they did not have their ticket as they were required to.

The OP (or anyone else) is not able to proof that they haven't sold their ticket; this is why a ticket is required.

chuckley, on Jul 9 2009, 01:16 PM, said:

OP took control of their mistake by bring several different types of ID, just incase... but was still ridiculed and told 'NO'.

because they didn't have the ticket that's required for entrance.

chuckley, on Jul 9 2009, 01:16 PM, said:

so would u expect the OP to turn around and make the journey back home????  all over a lost ticket which they could verify was real???

only the purchase is able to be verfied, nothing more. The festival is not able to verify that it hasn't been sold on.

chuckley, on Jul 9 2009, 01:16 PM, said:

you holier than thou attitude calling them 'pathetic' and claiming their mother 'wipes their own arse', sums u up completely.  i bet u were the TM person OP came across and are just MAD op got the better of u.

shame on u.  your attitude really stinks.

Grow up eh? The attitudes that stink are the attitudes that threaten the future of the festival. Like yours.

The ticket was purchased and issued on the condition it was used for entry. No ticket, no entry.

Yes, it really is that simple.

(And as I made clear, I sympathise with the situation he found himself in. But that's his fault, not anyone elses).

[cejx]

Sorry Efestivals....  are you trying to argue that adverse weather would f**k up a lap top... when they're running a gadzillion different electrical items on site... whilst broadcasting round the world?  Don't be absurd?  Dedicated software?  Bollocks!  They have this when you've bought a ticket.  Extra delays?  Surely folk who have stupidly lost tickets, dogs ate them, house's burnt down with tickets in them... they go to that dedicated date... with that laptop!

f**king hell... these things happen, out of 170k folk, a couple are going to lose tix through human error, general bell endness...  it seems fairly simple to implement a system.

[pedmills]

Well one way of getting round the whole issue is just to demand photo ID for everyone. Show your driving licence or passport when you go in. Wouldn't take much more time and would mean that nobody could get in with a bought ticket.

HOWEVER

Two problems:

1. Risk of lots of passports etc getting lost
2. If someone arrives without ID then more problems

[eFestivals]

Doomz, on Jul 9 2009, 01:24 PM, said:

So thats why I'm saying change the T&C's... "end of".

To be honest, there is no need to be that rude to me. All your comments regarding IT systems
and extra staff are redundant. Because as I said they looked up my details there, it took
them about 30 seconds. They said they could see who I was, see I had registered, see
proof I had registered and purchased a ticket and they just didn't care.

I haven't been rude, I've simply stated the facts of the matter.

And those facts of the matter include the fact that you purchasing a ticket proves zilch in regard to whether that ticket has already been used to allow someone to enter.

If they simply let in anyone who could prove purchasing a ticket then tickets come to mean f**k all for controlling the numbers entering, and a whole new system has to be implemented to control the numbers entering.

Doomz, on Jul 9 2009, 01:24 PM, said:

One of the first thing I said was I was a bell-end for losing it, I admit the responsability. But it *could happen to anyone* yourself included and *will continue to happen*. So you're saying you'd just shrug, sit and home and watch it on the TV? Like f**k you would, you'd have been doing everything I did in my shoes, which isn't pathetic, its human nature. This will happen next year, and you can either make some minor procedural changes (it all seemed to stem from one order from up top saying, don't let them in regardless if they've paid, we have their money already), to avoid lots of people, who aren't me going through the same thing next year. As I said I'm just trying to raise awareness of something I think is an issue, i.e the T&Cs being too tight. You disagree as I'm sure you've never lost anything in your whole life. Ever.

If I'd lost my own ticket I'd have choices to make about what I'd do as a result of that consequence.

But what I wouldn't do is expect entry anyway (that doesn't mean I maybe wouldn't try tho; I've not criticised you for trying), because I realise that the tickets are the only way within the current system that the festival is able to control the numbers entering the site.

All I said was pathetic was you expecting others to take responsibility for your own error. I stand by that.

[Langdale Wolf]

Just a few questions for the OP, but before I do, I'm not having a go at you, and completely understood why you did what you did:

If the ticket office staff were sympathetic to you instead of acting like tossers, and basically said - in a respectful way - "I'm really very sorry sir, but it's out of our juristiction - no ticket no entry.  Them's the rules" - would you have taken that as your final, final answer and done nothing else?

You also said you travelled down anyway, obviously knowing that you weren't 100% guaranteed to get through the gates, presumably at further expense to yourself.  If you would have phoned ahead a few days before explaining your situation only to be told the same thing - "I'm really very sorry sir, but it's out of our juristiction - no ticket no entry.  Them's the rules" - would you have still made the journey down?

The thing is, as genuine as you seem to be, you say you managed to get in not because of but in spite of the authorities who run the festival.  If you can do it, many people who aren't genuine and who haven't paid could also do the same thing.

Yes - the staff should not act that way, but at the end of the day, they were only doing their jobs, albeit with zero customer service skills.     Manners cost nothing.

At least you know to be more careful for next year though, eh?  Hope you enjoyed yourself once you were in there anyway!

Edited by Langdale Wolf, 09 July 2009 - 12:47 PM.

[Ponyegg]

I say well done as well.

Situations like this are bound to happen with this size of crowd, it's absolutely intolerable that SeeTickets/Glastonbury are incapable of providing some sort of provisioning for such situations.

It simply is not good enough to say 'no ticket no entry' when that ticket no longer exists. We wouldn't put up with it in any other environment and just because it's Glastonbury doesn't mean you should put up with it there either. There should be in future to be a special procedure for such incidents and I urge SeeTickets/Glastonbury to pursue this avenue/option for next year.

The exact mechanism of how this would work could involve a number of proof-of-identity checks similar to how the poster acted (bills, bank statements ID, passport etc...). Just because it may be operationally difficult is no excuse to ignore those who've paid in good faith and then found themselves unable to attend because of the organisers inability to regulate ticket/entries correctly.

For those who didn't manage to get in I hope you're going to ask for your money back for their refusal  to let you in and enjoy a festival that you have paid for. I certainly believe that if you provide the relevant evidence of taking all reasonable steps to prove you are the person on the lost ticket then you would have a case. IANAL, if anyone here is and knows consumer law then please enlighten us.

[scaryclaireyfairy]

if the ticket system is as perfect as e-festivals says,  then there is little or no risk of the purchaser of a sold-on ticket getting onto site.  so the op as a bona fide ticket buyer should be allowed in upon proof of purchase identity etc.

[eFestivals]

Bluearsedfly, on Jul 9 2009, 01:25 PM, said:

You are not getting the gist of this are you.

He had a ticket and anyone with a degree of common sense could have checked his authenticity if so enclined. There simply has to be a process for this other than a tough shit attitude which seems to be your spin; What would you have done, made a phone call to emily??  

Is it too much to ask for the handful of people who do have such a misfortune to be subject to a little investigation in order not to ruin their Year other than sanctimonius pricks sat their getting off on other peoples misfortune?

I'm getting the gist of this to a far greater extent than the rest of you. IF NO TICKET IS REQUIRED TO ENTER THEN THERE'S NO WAY OF CONTROLING OF THE NUMBERS ON SITE.

All that people are able to check is that he's purchased a ticket. That proves nothing about what happened to the ticket he was sent. He might have sold it on - no one has any way of knowing if he has or not.

I'm not getting off on others misfortune.

I'm taking the view that the festival HAS TO HAVE, to ensure that it's able to continue.

A ticket is required to enter. That's really all there is to it. He had no ticket.

[pedmills]

Even if there was a computer system (which says which tickets have been used to gain entry) there will still potentially the following situation:

You lose the ticket.
Somebody picks it up and sells it to someone who looks like you.
The person who bought the ticket gets into the festival.
You get the festival and say you've lost the ticket and haven't sold it, the people on the gates check the system to see if that ticket has been used to get in.
It flags that the ticket has been used to get in, thus they think you've sold it and you don't get in.

Even if you just lose it and don't sell it, there's no guarantee it won't end up in the hands of someone else.

[grandadcollective]

Laura_Babs, on Jul 9 2009, 01:30 PM, said:

How would they prove that he has not given the ticket to someone else and they have gone in? If there were bar codes/some kind of computer system which I am sure could be implemented although perhaps with some expense, then I can see how, but not sure if there is a way at the moment. I think that if it is possible then a system should be put in place. I lose evertything so can totally relate to how upsetting/stressful it is for something like to happen.

I presume this is what the photos/ bar codes are about (although I believe they are a bit of a PR gimmick as it seems only a few staff check them) The onus would be with GFL to prove otherwise. As for expense, I'm admittedly no computer expert but how much are laptops these days? How hard would it be to store ticket details on them? Ultimately it depends on whether  the festival really wants to stop touts and illegal entry and how much they are using sound bites to publicise the festival. Before anyone starts talking about hold ups at the gate it would be easy for a festival with Glastos considerable experience to quickly redirect these poor souls/numpties to officials with the wherewithal to deal with them. Shit, I'm pretty sure most of us on here would happily walk a few extra miles and wait a few extra hours if we found ourselves in Doomz shoes.

[eFestivals]

scouseLee, on Jul 9 2009, 01:25 PM, said:

Do they not scan the barcode on the ticket upon entry? If so not that hard surely to do a re-issue and cancel the "lost" original??? click click job done  

They don't scan the tickets on entry.

I know they've looked into a system like that, and considered it to be unworkable for a whole number of reasons, including the fact that in bad weather it's thought almost impossible to be able to keep such a system working at every gate.

If they implemented such a system and it failed, causing all gates to close for hours at a time (which would be their only option), there'd be a damned site more people hugely pissed off than the tiny numbers who might lose their ticket.

But of course, you (and tens of thousands of others) would sit there happily missing the festival in those circumstances, and wouldn't complain at all, would you?

[Hubz]

eFestivals, on Jul 9 2009, 01:35 PM, said:

No, you've missed the point.

The point is: no ticket, no entry.

The ticket is meant to be everyone's passport onto the site. If no ticket is needed, just proof of purchase, then next year we can expect to be the last Glastonbury, because if two people might be entering for any ticket sold then the festival will be exceeding it's licence conditions and will have no way of trying to abide by those licence conditions.

Just because they had proof of purchase proves nothing about what they might have done with the ticket. They might have sold it on, and the buyer might have got onto site OK with it.


the system is NOT flawed. The system works PERFECTLY.

Any flaws are due to individuals not doing their job in the manner they've been told to do their job.



I'm not trying to justify any rudeness, but at the same time the person in the ticket office did not have to give the OP entrance - they did not have their ticket as they were required to.

The OP (or anyone else) is not able to proof that they haven't sold their ticket; this is why a ticket is required.


because they didn't have the ticket that's required for entrance.


only the purchase is able to be verfied, nothing more. The festival is not able to verify that it hasn't been sold on.




Grow up eh? The attitudes that stink are the attitudes that threaten the future of the festival. Like yours.

The ticket was purchased and issued on the condition it was used for entry. No ticket, no entry.

Yes, it really is that simple.

(And as I made clear, I sympathise with the situation he found himself in. But that's his fault, not anyone elses).

I get the distinct impression that you have taken this stance to give an alternative view of this debate and stir it up a bit (as everyone replying thus far has been sympathetic to his cause).  

I know your views do occasionly have a degree of sarcasm which is interpreted as being harsh or rude but on this occasion it does seem a little OTT.  I can't imagine if this had happened to you that you would be posting on this forum saying you deserved everything you got beacuse you were stupid enough or unlucky enough to misplace your ticket.  Quite the opposite in fact!!  

To the OP - good on you for getting in.  There are obvious flaws on this subject that needs to be addressed.

[eFestivals]

arteet, on Jul 9 2009, 01:26 PM, said:

Recently went to a sold out gig at Brixton Academy. Friends were coming from various places in the country for it and 2 of them realised they had left their tickets at home. This was a few hours before the doors opened so after a couple of calls to the venue and the ticket agency it was agreed that they would be able to pay for a ticket on the door and would receive a refund for the other tickets if they posted them back after the event.

I am not trying to say this should be done at Glastonbury as anyone could turn up and just pay to get in regardless of whether they had a ticket or not. They wouldnt need to claim a refund after as they never had a ticket in the first place. I just wanted to point out that at least one venue and ticket agency (I am unsure who it was) was sympathetic and helpful to a situation of lost / forgotten ticket close to the event.

the bit in bold is the exact reason why Glastonbury can't work it like this.

arteet, on Jul 9 2009, 01:26 PM, said:

Dont agree with that at all. Sziget Festival in Hungary uses a barcode system and I believe over 400,000 attend over 7 days. I dont recall any problems when I went.

perhaps they resourced it properly?

The simple fact is that the festivals in the UK that worked a barcode system last year have dropped it for this year, because last year they staffed the gates at their normal staff numbers and entry took massively longer because of it. While they could have put on more staff so that entrance was at the same speed, that has cost implications, costs they weren't prepared to cover.

[grandadcollective]

pedmills, on Jul 9 2009, 01:48 PM, said:

Even if there was a computer system (which says which tickets have been used to gain entry) there will still potentially the following situation:

You lose the ticket.
Somebody picks it up and sells it to someone who looks like you.
The person who bought the ticket gets into the festival.
You get the festival and say you've lost the ticket and haven't sold it, the people on the gates check the system to see if that ticket has been used to get in.
It flags that the ticket has been used to get in, thus they think you've sold it and you don't get in.

Even if you just lose it and don't sell it, there's no guarantee it won't end up in the hands of someone else.

That's true enough and would be very unlucky. However you could negate this by calling the powers that be to report the ticket lost or stolen and to deny the holder entry 9the responsibility of the ticket holder). I presume there is as some responsibility on the festival to only allow the correct person to enter on the correct ticket. Logistics shouldn't come into it.

[fumps]

My other half's workmate received a ticket with the wrong name on it, he was advised to return the ticket & they would issue a new one with his correct details on it.

Royal mail then lost his new ticket, he was told to come to the outer gates & bring all his details just like Doomz did & yes he received the exact same treatment, they treat him like utter sh*te eventually he convinced them to make the call & they emediatley gave him access.

He was fuming, he had done nothing wrong & still got that treatment.

Doomz i'm chuffed for you mate, being honest & you still got in. nice one mate

[ivan]

eFestivals, on Jul 9 2009, 01:54 PM, said:

the bit in bold is the exact reason why Glastonbury can't work it like this.


perhaps they resourced it properly?

The simple fact is that the festivals in the UK that worked a barcode system last year have dropped it for this year, because last year they staffed the gates at their normal staff numbers and entry took massively longer because of it. While they could have put on more staff so that entrance was at the same speed, that has cost implications, costs they weren't prepared to cover.

At Wireless , Leeds a few years back for Massive Attack they used the bar codes that had been sent to your mobile phone.  However sun-light and older mobile phones gave the staff headaches when trying to let people in.

Luckily virtually no one went to the festival so there we no q's anyway.

I see Wireless never came back to Leeds !!!

[pedmills]

Look people there are only 4 options:

1. Scan all tickets. - but this has been suggested and apparently won't work. Also if a ticket is lost and found by somebody else, who then gets in before you, then you are still stuck.

2. Let in the original purchaser of the ticket, even if they have lost or sold the ticket - but this would mean that in a worse case scenario (everybody sold their ticket to a lookalike) there could be over 300,000 people on site.

3. Make tickets have a better ID than picture (e.g. fingerprint or something of that nature) - would never work, too many problems

4. Get every single person trying to get in to bring in photo ID (passport or driving licence) - only viable option, however people might forget or lose this ID and then be in a similar situation to a lost ticket.

[sifi]

You forgot option number 5.  Don't leave your ticket in a place where you idiot flat mate might chuck it - keep it somewhere very safe .....

[Langdale Wolf]

Hubz, on Jul 9 2009, 01:51 PM, said:

I get the distinct impression that you have taken this stance to give an alternative view of this debate and stir it up a bit (as everyone replying thus far has been sympathetic to his cause).  

I know your views do occasionly have a degree of sarcasm which is interpreted as being harsh or rude but on this occasion it does seem a little OTT.  I can't imagine if this had happened to you that you would be posting on this forum saying you deserved everything you got beacuse you were stupid enough or unlucky enough to misplace your ticket.  Quite the opposite in fact!!  

To the OP - good on you for getting in.  There are obvious flaws on this subject that needs to be addressed.

I think Neil HAS been sympathetic, but what's he's said is correct.  Yes, of course it's harsh on the OP, but rules are rules.

Unfortunately, going by the terms and conditions, Doomz had no more right to get in than the usual scallies who try to scale the fence every year.  Because he hadn't got a ticket on him.  Yes, he bought one, (more than your average stereotypical fence-jumping chav is ever likely to do) but the fact remains that he didn't have it on him and the T&Cs you agree to when purchasing said ticket states you need it for entry.

The only 'flaws' I think with this subject is the rude treatment Doomz got at the ticket office, but the rules they had to stick to are the only way to ensure the festival keeps its license.

(Oh, and the obvious flaw of Royal bastard Mail f**king up fumps's mate's ticket delivery of course, but that's not the fault of the festival).

[eFestivals]

shiveringsky, on Jul 9 2009, 01:30 PM, said:

Why aren't they scanned? Surely this is the best measure to see exactly which tickets are on site?

they're not scanned because of the practicalities of it.

It would require a site-wide computer system that worked without failure at every gate for 100% of the time (99.999%  of the time would mean the system was as good as useless).

No one is able to guarantee an always-working computer system. So Glastonbury have chosen to stick with a guaranteed working system.

shiveringsky, on Jul 9 2009, 01:30 PM, said:

Everyone loses something from time to time and it's really unfair that the honest folk who do suffer these mishaps suffer because there are lying scum out there waiting to take advantage. Doesn't seem very fair to me, that Glastonbury policy would be so rigid as to have zero sympathy for the genuinely upset or affected.

it's similarly unfair that the festival's whole future would be compromised due to those honest folk who can't take responsibility for what's theirs.

shiveringsky, on Jul 9 2009, 01:30 PM, said:

I don't actually see the point of the registration system if they don't trust it enough themselves to believe, when provided with ample evidence, that a person isn't on the scam and is a genuine victim. Be that victim of their own folly or someone elses.

I don't see the point in people buying anything if they're not able to take responsibility for what they buy.

If you lost £1000 on the way back from the bank, whose fault would that be? Why do you think just Glastonbury should work on a different basis to everything else in life?