Dr Who revealed

[5co77ie]

http://www.holymoly.com/tv/pictures/new-set-doctor-who-christmas-special-pictures-leak59695

[metallimuse]

http://www.holymoly....tures-leak59695

It has been confirmed already that River Song is the girl in the suit.

Also,no chance that story will be covered in the Xmas special.

[MrZigster]

Rowan Atkinson turned down a part in this series & also thought about doing a Blackadder episode called Doctor Whom.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-15123783

Anyone else think this would have been awesome?

[Halcyon]

^ after seeing the trailer for the new Jonny English, I no longer have respect for or care about anything Atkinson does.

[MrZigster]

^ yeah, have to agree somewhat. Artistic integrity abandoned in favour of gazillions of box office dollars? Milking Mr Bean for all it was worth for example.

But Edmund as Who with Baldrick as Assistant? C'mon?

[Purple Monkey]

That was great.

Are they seriously going to answer that question though?

[metallimuse]

That was great.

Are they seriously going to answer that question though?

Depends on what your definition of that question is though?

[metallimuse]

I was abit disapointed though as I thought when the Doctor whispered in River's ear it was a tie back to the first time we saw River with Tennant's incarnation and thought it was a nice completion.Did we ever get an answer as to what she whispered then?

[Langdale Wolf]

Brilliant ending - did anyone else think that it was MUCH better as a standalone episode rather than a 2-part finale? The pacing was much better - I didn't think too much was rushed, yet there aren't many (if any) questions still to be answered.

Wonderfully written - I think Steven Moffatt is a bit of a genius.

I really enjoyed the bit with Amy showing her ruthless side too - it seems Moffatt isn't afraid to take risks like that.

Great stuff - I'll miss the show now it's finished.

[MrZigster]

Loved the nod of respect to The Brigadier last night.

[LusciousLucy]

Not sure if it has been mentioned or anyone else has picked this up on Twitter or other sources but apparently Stormageddon translates as 'Fallen Silence' from ancient Greek.

Noone out there in Geekland can really fathom whether this is of any importance but it's still pretty cool.

Final episode was a bit WTF for a bit but it was a good end and as the Grauniad blog states, it does hopefully allow for the next (shorter) series to go into more of an in the background style of doctoring seeing as the universe thinks the Doctor is dead.

There was a little too much going on but was very enjoyable.

[Langdale Wolf]

Loved the nod of respect to The Brigadier last night.

Yeah, that was ace.

[Purple Monkey]

Um, so if the Doc was the Tesselector this whole time - then why did that whole alternate timeline with broken time exist? That would have happened if The Doctor was actually at the epicentre of the time fuck up.....but he never was, only the Tesselector getting shot was what was being interfered with by River.

How did the Tesselector simulate regeneration? Why did time speed start going back to normal whenever the Doctor touched River if he was inside the Tesselector? Wouldn't the nature of him being safely inside completely destroy the alternate timeline? Or, is the paradox simply one of observation like in the last series where perception is enough to re-write time?

My brain hurts.

Edited October 3, 2011 by Purple Monkey

[metallimuse]

He wasn't the tesselector the whole time,just on the date when he had to go to Lake Silencio and he still was at the epicentre because he was inside the tesselector which in turn was shot.

I think...my brain hurts too...

[Purple Monkey]

[oops]

Edited October 3, 2011 by Purple Monkey

[5co77ie]

The question now is how much did tinygreendragon know when she started this thread?

[radish]

The question now is how much did tinygreendragon know when she started this thread?

I hope you realise you made me go back and read the whole thread.

And for what it's worth I thought the finale was outstanding, really really enjoyed it. I don't do emotions, no time for them, but I must admit a small wet thing forced itself out of the corner of my eye during the Brigadier telephone bit. To not only put in a tribute to a much-loved character and actor but also make it integral to the theme of the episode/series (as in the Doctor having to face up to death) was awesome writing. Chap with the wings, five rounds rapid.

[radish]

He wasn't the tesselector the whole time,just on the date when he had to go to Lake Silencio and he still was at the epicentre because he was inside the tesselector which in turn was shot.

I think...my brain hurts too...

The altered./broken timeline happened because River somehow changed a fixed point in time. This is an interesting concept in itself; Russell T Davies' introduction of fixed points was quite a good idea imho, gave the Doctor free reign to muck about as long as certain things weren't messed with, even to the extent in Waters of Mars that when he tried to change things time seemed to say "no chance matey" and what should have happened still did. Now Moffatt seems to have written in a get-out clause, you can change a fixed point but you'll basically end time, and presumably therefore end reality or some such. So who could benefit from changing a fixed point in time, which is presumably what a time-locked war is? 2 years until the 50th anniversary, big things are expected...

Anyway, the fixed point in time was the death of the Doctor, or so we were led to believe. But it actually turned out to be the apparent death of the tesselecta, always was/will be/is/will happen to be/will happen to be happening etc. (and the tesselecta regeneration thing - it/they saw Mels regenerate into River, so presumably it can copy the effect). So when River (who sort of knew what was going on due to her timey-wimey nature) chose to not shoot the Doctor, time went bandy. In the bandy timeline the Doctor then found the tesselecta, 'married' River and told her what he was (i.e. hiding in a robot), then somehow went back to lake silencio where River shot the tesselecta and time carried on as normal.

Of course, this should then mean that he doesn't go and find the tesselecta and hide in it as the time line where that happens no longer exists, but it already did happen (even though it doesn't) so he does find the tesselecta and save the day. Well, his own day. Life. Whatever. Clear?

[5co77ie]

I hope you realise you made me go back and read the whole thread.

ooops I just meant in reference to the title.

[jump]

Clear?

Nope, I don't get what a fixed point of time actually is. If it's so important to not change the timeline then why is he changing it every week?

[radish]

ooops I just meant in reference to the title.

I'll let you off, it was rather enjoyable actually.

[radish]

Nope, I don't get what a fixed point of time actually is. If it's so important to not change the timeline then why is he changing it every week?

Time in general, past/future/present/whatever, can be changed and often is at a whim by the Doctor, his companions and enemies. The Doctor in particular because as a Time Lord he sees things a bit differently and understands the whole time/space thing a bit better than us.

But the concept RTD re-introduced (or updated or whatever, it was kind of present all the way back to William Hartnell with some references to certain things that couldn't or shouldn't be changed, even lead to one companion leaving in disgust at the Doctor refusing to do something because he said something had to happen so he couldn't interfere) is that there are certain points in time, certain occurences, that have to happen, must always have happened, and nobody should attempt to change them. In essence they're saying that if these fixed points don't happen then things that follow those points, i.e. the destiny of the universe or whatever, won't happen in the way it should, such as the Holy Roman Emperor Churchill in the mashed-up now-never-happened future etc. In the Waters of Mars when the Doctor goes all Time Lord Victorius and decides to save martian astronaut bint instead of letting her die in what he knew was a fixed point/occurence, she dies anyway, the subtext being that the fixed point still exists; time insisted on it.

Another (possible) example - Genesis of the Daleks; the Doctor is sent to commit genocide by destroying the Daleks before they escape their home planet (possibly the first strike in the time war) but at one point chooses not to. Towards the end of the story he realises he has to do it, so goes back to blow them up. You could either see this as the Daleks leaving Skaro being the fixed point, so the Doctor has to fail in his mission, or the Doctor starting the time war that leads to the end of the Time Lords is the fixed point, so the Doctor has to set the explosion off. If this story had been made now, I bet there would be some kind of fixed point shenanigans going on. I'm sure there are more bits from the classic series that would get explained away as fixed points now too; Scaroth's exploding ship kick-starting life on Earth, Adric dying, Terminus exploding and triggering the (first) big bang, the inexplicable and inexcusable employment of Bonnie bloody Langford as a companion, and so on.

So, you can't kill Hitler, or stop Mount Vesuvius burying Pompeii, or prevent Mr & Mrs Bieber/Cowell/Buble (delete or add as appropriate) procreating and ending culture as we know it, or save the Doctor/tesselecta, but you can stick Hitler in a cupboard, or save one family, or give someone a diary or sonic screwdriver because you've already seen them with it, or any of the other things that happen week in week out on a time travel show.

[Istari]

Photo my OH took in a club last night. The Cybermen have returned

[Halcyon]

The way I saw it was that the fixed point in time is the fact that the universe* thinks the Doctor is dead. Not that the Doctor dies, or that River shoots the Doctor, or that River shoots a tesselector, or that Amy sees the doctor dies etc... but that the universe thinks the doctor dies.

Therefore, it was always a tesselector doctor that got shot - that's what we saw at the beginning of the series, and at the end of the series. When River chose not to shoot, time collapsed because the fixed point changed - ie the universe saw that the doctor didn't actually die. Once River knew she wouldn't be killing the real doctor, she could shoot and would be fooling the universe into thinking the real doctor had died. This would leave the path clear for the Doctor to 'disappear into the shadows after becoming too loud' (sic)

Of course, this requires that news of the 'doctors death' spreads throughout the universe... but with a bit of timey wimey plot hole plastering I'm sure that could be explained. Afterall, only about a handful of people know he didn't die (Amy, River, Rory, the blue head in the box, the doctor, and the time police guys).

* when I say the universe, I mean to the people in it.

Edited October 5, 2011 by Halcyon

[Halcyon]

The Weaping Angels in Minecraft!